-I see. Now I'd like to ask you about your new album. First off, about the CD jacket. Your previous works feature black prominently, however this album features metallic colors and sharp angles over a white background.

Matsuda-Yes it does.

-Compared to your previous covers, this cover seems surprising simple, which contrasts directly with the feel of many of the songs on the album. What was the concept behind the artwork?

Suginami-We applied the same concept to the cover as the rest of the album: "Headphone Children." The title "Headphone Children" refers to the peculiar nature of our generation, where there's all these people walking around town listening to headphones, not feeling that they are alive. Communication is rare, and even though all sorts of people surround us, there's no sensation that we are connected-that's the concept of "Headphone Children." So the metallic portion represents that. From there we wanted to send the message, "Break out of your shell," but first we wanted to declare that we ourselves were going to break out our own shells and connect with the world. The way the title "Headphone Children" is written at the top all explosive like (see the jacket) is supposed to reflect that concept.

-I see.

Matsuda-On the complete other hand, up until now we've been trying to make pointed album covers to convey the edginess, unpleasantness, stranger-like nature of the band so there's been a lot of threatening black in our covers. This time we wanted to turn that around and convey the acute but non-black-maybe even white-nature of our songs like "Kizuna Song" and "Kiseki" with the album cover. We still wanted to come across as pointed and edgy, but we also wanted to convey the concept of "Headphone Children," like Suginami just said, and incorporate the image the sound of the album into the cover artwork. All in unprecedented high quality.

-High quality...yes, yes.

Matsuda-The CD jacket that is. (Laughs) Uh, what is it about the cover exactly...it feels really pop but at the same time really edgy. I think it's a great mix-people are going to go "What is this?" I think we've done well with the album this time. In the past we've both done our own covers and had other people make them for us, but I think we've redefined The Back Horn's image with this new cover.

-So you had this all in mind from the start?

Matsuda-Yes. There's this monster of a man named Mr.Nagato, well, I wouldn't say monster, (Laughs) but this artist who makes really monstrous works. The first time I saw his work I thought his work was amazing. Then there's this other guy Johan from Iceland who did most of the planning for "Headphone Children." The two of them together made a bunch of the stuff for the CD.
Matsuda-Up until now we'd drawn a lot of the work ourselves. This time we left everything to someone else and it turned out really new-yet still really Back Horn-like. I realized it is O.K. to rely on people.

-Definitely, I feel a brand-new essence poking through. This time around it seems that the guitars are more heavily layered, the album itself has a heavier feel to it. Has anything changed in how you approach your music?

Suginami-Nothing has fundamentally changed at the root of our music, but people change a little bit every year, right? There's definitely something new but we're still doing the same things we've done with all of our music. The one thing we tried on this album was on songs like "Kizuna Song" where we tried to write something more open to the world than what we've done previously. So there was that, and then songs where we tried to vividly describe a confused mental state, energetic songs and then slightly humorous songs, and then to finish it up we went a little pop. Our heavy mentality hasn't changed at all, but ultimately it's become something one can enjoy as pop as well.
Matsuda-With the sound on the other hand, we tried to take advantage of each of all of our different instruments to make the compositions for the album. It's not the case with all of the songs, but we wanted to take advantage of the tension and passion that gets drawn out when you put together a bunch of instruments in an ensemble. The place where that's previously been the most obvious is with the song "Ikiru Saino," where we tried to construct a real heavy sound. This time we thought it would be better to go for more of a conglomerate sound, so personally I think that our last album was heavier.

-Yeah, I thought the song "Joker" was really heavy.

Matsuda-Yes, we went through that process for both "Joker" and "Wakusei Melancholy." To tell the truth, this time we wanted to blow away that sort of feeling with energy, we thought that was really important.

-So you kept the pointed aspects of your music while picking up the feel of the rest of the album?

Matsuda-Yes we did. Also, during recording we worked to preserve the tension and feel of the band. When you're recording, of course, it's important to have a bunch of different instrument sounds. We paid attention to the final sound too, how the cymbals go "jagiiiiiin" and the guitars go "jogiiiin.." It was mostly just "jagiiiin" and "jogiiiin" I guess.

Everyone-(Laughs)

Matsuda-The engineers came up with the sound this time. I guess it is kind of another theme for the album.

-I find that the album has more than just a pointed feel, there's a sense of warmth.

Matsuda-There's definitely some warmth and flavor in there. Like on the song "Headphone Children." We definitely thought of that as well, but mostly we wanted to make something more pop than heavy. This time there's some simpler, catchier songs.There's different ways of thinking about pop-whether it's defined by a clear sound or because the listener is already familiar with the song-but we feel that we've made something pop this time around.
Suginami-We were more conscious than we've ever been about making the album accessible through pop.
Matsuda-There's different ways of accessing music as well. There's people who go, "What IS this?" and enjoy it, or people who look at a title like "Boseki Fever" and think, "What does that mean?" and enjoy it, (Laughs) people who get caught up in the music and enjoy it, and of course people who just like the songs. I feel like people are going to hear this album and think it's really well rounded. I don't think I enjoy music in all those ways, but I find all the different ways people respond to the album interesting.

-I see. I'd like to go back to "Boseki Fever." The lyrics are very characteristic of The Back Horn, I'd like to ask at what sort of times you write your lyrics?

Suginami-When I feel like writing, I'll write a song. Anyone ought to be able to write a song if they have the motivation.
Matsuda-A ha ha. (Laughs)
Suginami-I think some people can't write because they are just too lazy.

-Uh (Laughs)...I see. (Laughs)

Suginami-If they'd just focus they could write a song.

-Even when they're stuck with writer's block?

Suginami-They'd be better off if they just focused until something came up.

-So you're always focused when you're writing?

Suginami-Yeah, always focused. Even if I don't do anything else, at least I can focus.

-Are you the same way Mr. Matsuda?

Matsuda-No, uh, I, heh heh, can't get anything done if I'm not under pressure. (Laughs)
Suginami-Timewise, under deadline. (Laughs)
Matsuda-Sometimes I'm like that, but with a song like "Yume no Hana," I'd been thinking of it for quite a while, letting the images settle. With "Kiseki" though, I did that under pressure. I think Suginami really can focus like he says, though.
Suginami-But in exchange, I tend to lose my stuff or knock things over a lot. (Laughs)
Matsuda-That's how he achieves balance...I'm not sure if it all sums out to zero though. (Laughs)
Suginami-Hey (Laughs) that's just because I spill stuff on people. (Laughs)

-On people? (Laughs) Do you do it...intentionally? (Laughs)

Suginami-No, (Laughs) I just inadvertently (Laughs)...inadvertently spill something and someone's head happens to be directly below it. (Laughs)

-On the other hand, I don't think many people can just sit there and write until something comes up.

Suginami-I just have the writing spirit!! Isn't it better to keep thinking until something comes up?
Matsuda-Just keep thinking, eh? (Laughs)

-(Laughs) So, you don't have any moments where you're walking around and a phrase just comes to you?

Suginami-That happens as well.

-What about you, Mr. Yamada?

Yamada-I think I'm the opposite of Suginami, when I keep thinking about writing, the same lyrics just end up rolling around in my head. I can't say much because I haven't written that many songs at this point, but I come up with my lyrics in a number of ways.

-I see. Mr. Okamine, I see you didn't write on this album, are you planning to write songs in the future?

Okamine-No.

Everyone-(Laughs)

-No? (Laughs)

Okamine-(Laughs) However, I did write some couplings for "Kizuna Song." And I'm not refusing to write or anything.
Matsuda-Different people are good at different thing, you know.
Okamine-I haven't progressed much as a songwriter.
Yamada-I haven't either.
Suginami-Really, I think it's better that the skilled people do it.

Everyone-(Laughs)

Suginami-...I'll do it...

-A ha ha (Laughs)

Matsuda-We'll just keep asking you to change things around. Seriously, (Laughs) we'll be like "Do it like this, do it like that!" (Laughs) Suginami-It's pretty fun-even when they boss me around.

-So they boss you around a lot? (Laughs)

Suginami-Nah, well they don't make any unreasonable requests. (Laughs) Matsuda-Like saying you have to use a certain word? (Laughs)
Okamine-Like telling you we physiologically just don't like it? (Laughs)
Suginami-Yes, yes. (Laughs) No unreasonable requests like that. (Laughs)

-I see. (Laughs) In the lyrics to the song "Tobira" you sing the phrase, "Kotoba ja naku shinjitsu no basho de" ("the place of truth not words"). What does "the place of truth" mean to you?

Yamada-Do you mean within the scope of the song?

-That too, but I was thinking about within yourselves as well...

Matsuda-Ohhhhhhhhh...Well, I think there's people who are good at communication-who can always think of the right words, who can make others feel better with words, and who can convey what they are trying to say with words-and then there's those that aren't. When I hear the phrase, "Kotoba ja naku shinjitsu no basho de," I think of those things that we can't put into words...well not things, but for example, feelings. There's emotions we can't convey with just one word, right? It's not a place, exactly. (Laughs) You can explain anything if you really put your all into talking about it, you can smooth all sorts of things out by trying, but sometimes there's things you just can't explain, things you can't completely capture the essence of, and explanations that aren't satisfactory...
For example, say you get into a fight with your girlfriend. You can say you're sorry, but even if you're sorry and you want to tell her you don't want her to be angry with you, you're words won't convey that at all. You can say all you want but it doesn't mean anything. It's like those sorts of situations, when you're beating around in your head about all the things you really want to say but can't-words are simple things and if you use them correctly you can convey yourself easily, but some truths just can't be transformed into words like that. So what I'm basically trying to say is that it's not a "place," but more of a feeling.

-I see. That was quite deep.

Suginami-I feel that way a lot when I'm performing onstage. Yeah...I feel like performing is more of "the real thing" than everyday life. Okamine-I think so too...now that I think about it.

-I believe Mr. Yamada wrote these lyrics, however.

Yamada-Words are funny things-there's times when they are convenient and you can choose exactly the write words, then times when you can't say what you want to or where your words mean something different from what you intended-though I do think words are absolutely important. Like Matsuda said before, there's places that transcend words... I'd like to go to that place myself.

-So that was the intention of the lyrics as well?

Yamada-Yes.

-In the song "Cobalt Blue" you sing, "Kawaranai kono sekai, kudaranee kono sekai" (It doesn't change, this world, it's good-for-nothing, this world"). Are there any times when you feel that way?

Suginami-There's times when I think the world's changing as well. Like, "it's gonna change soon." But there are times when I think, "this is never going to change, this is good-for-nothing, but I'm going to keep going"...I feel a certain romance in that. It's romantic, isn't it? I like it when people willfully go, "I'm going to get through this void." You don't really say anything, but you keep pushing. . . I think there's something beautiful about it.

-Beautiful? (Laughs)

Suginami-It's beautiful...at least a little. (Laughs) it shows a little bit of willpower.
Matsuda-A ha ha (Laughs)
Suginami-It shows a bit of willpower, right? But the important part (Laughs) is that I like that sort of thing. (Laughs)
Yamada-They're significantly different, what you call willpower and what you call beauty. (Laughs)

-A ha ha. (Laughs) I guess you've turned willpower into beauty.

Suginami-Well...that's just the way it is, at least sometimes. Of course there are still plenty of times when you assert your will too much and things don't work out.

-I see. There's a song on the album titled, "Yume no hana" ("Flower of dreams"). If such a "yume no hana" really existed, what sort of shape and color do you imagine it would be?

Matsuda-I guess, and it depends on the person, but to tell the truth I was thinking of the blooming of dreams more than the blooming of flowers. So when I ask what sort of color it would be in the song, I was just comparing dreams to flowers. I guess I could have called the song "Yume no kusa" ("Grass of dreams") or "Yume no sora" ("Sky of dreams") instead. It's the variety you keep from birth to death, that you were given by your parents, the value of your life and your goals...
When I say "dreams," I don't mean like in elementary school when you wanted to be a pilot or candy-maker. I mean the things that give you a sense of achievement once you've become an adult: your goals and ideals. But with your dreams comes conflict; you know you want to be a certain way, but you might lie or take short-cuts, you might come to hate groping your way towards your goals, you might not make it because you're clumsy. If you really want to do it you might cut corners and cheat your way to the top, but I don't think that's the way it should be. I'd say that if everyone's fighting like that for what they call "dreams," it seems like what's happening isn't that people's dreams are being granted so much as that people are taking their goals and cultivating them somewhere close to their hearts, watering them until they bring about the fruition of those dreams you've had since birth. If you say it that way it means that the things we call goals, the things we call ideals, are all dyed in our own colors, doesn't it? That was the intention of the lyrics. So, the color of the "flower of dreams" is infinite.

-So it's something you dye yourself, I see. That's so true. On the title track, "Headphone Children," you sing, "Headphone no naka ni nante sukui wa nai yo" ("There's no relief inside of your headphones"). Since I know you are musicians yourself, I found these lyrics to be particularly meaningful.

Suginami-What we meant is that our wishes belong only to ourselves. But I'd say that we wrote this song to help ourselves more than to help others. Helping ourselves by helping others, and just getting this stuff stuff off our chests . . . I guess there was a bit of an egotistical side to it all. Of course, we wanted to help other people as well, but there definitely was an egotistical side to it too. But, or really, because of that, I think it's a very real song, and I'm happy when people hear the song and like it. Still, I do wonder what people really think of it--whether it's actually helped them at all. I just wrote the song without considering how it would affect other people.

-I thought the song also made a statement against shutting oneself off from the world.

Matsuda-I think some people get that.
Suginami-There's certainly some times where it's better to shut yourself off. But when deep down in your heart you finally start thinking that you have to get out of there soon, you have to get out quick in order to help yourself.
Matsuda-Also, we were trying to tell the listeners that they aren't in collusion with us. We wanted to say let's all keep on trying; we'll keep making good music, but if you don't like it go out and find something better on your own. Draw your power from that. I really think we were trying to say to stay away from co-dependency.

-Definitely, if you keep trying to make each other happy you'll only feel better for that moment. I completely agree with you. Changing the subject, where do you feel "Kizuna" (bonds) the most?

Suginami-I feel them a lot when I'm working with the band. For example, when I'm writing lyrics, isn't that supposed to capture my own solitary feelings? Yet, everyone makes these lyrics their own as they play the drums and bass or sing. It's at those times I feel the bond between us.
Yamada-Definitely...I don't really feel it that much because I'm giving it my all for the most part, but, of course when we have a little time off, or even right now while I'm talking, I feel like there's some sort of connection between us. I'm sure all sorts of people feel that way but don't notice it. I guess I feel it the most after we've done something as a band or performed live.
Matsuda-With me...of course I feel it when we're performing as well but...but when something forces me to talk to strangers...force is sort of a strange word but, (Laughs) but say for some reason you're compelled to come into contact with someone and you have to talk, I definitely feel the bonds then. It might be someone you don't know now, but in the future they might become like part of your family. Through work, you might not have had any intention of meeting them, maybe never have come into contact before, but for some reason you have this opportunity where you have to talk to them...Then, later when you've gotten to be friends you look back and think how it all started because you had to, at those times...

-Because you had to...(Laughs)

Matsuda-Had to. (Laughs) That happens a lot though, right?

-Yes it does. (Laughs)

Matsuda-Right? I mean, for example, your older brother says he's going to get married and so you have to get to know the other family. It's your brother getting married so you probably don't know his bride-to-be, yet you get to know that family better because soon you're going to be related. I think that happens a lot, where something happens and people get together and meet each other. You might start as complete strangers, but you could say it was fate that brought you together . . .

Everyone-(Laughs)

Matsuda-I definitely think it's a type of bond when people suddenly become close like that.

-I see. What about you Mr. Okamine?

Okamine-I really notice it when I'm away from my friends or family a while. I've been experiencing it a lot lately.

-You never really notice when you're together.

Okamine-That's because everyone is a part of your everyday life.

-Just looking at the lyrics I'd say that you guys come across more dark than light on this album. Yet, at every point you've filled your songs with the courage to rise above the darkness. It's definitely not perfectly dark.

Matsuda-Definitely.

-Do you guys usually have the courage to rise above your circumstances?

Suginami-Yes, we are all instinctively facing his or her own trouble and rising up. Of course, there's some times where people just want to give in, right? But then you got caught up in desire, er, well wanting to stay in the squalor is desire as well, but whoever you are you're going to get older and when you see the world, gain the courage to go after your dreams and wishes.

-Do you think that will happen to everyone?

Everyone-No, I guess not.
Yamada-But you never know if or when it will happen, there's no set cycle. If you fall down one day, maybe you'll sleep it off by the next or maybe seeing you're girlfriend will make you feel better.
Matsuda-I might not know how it feels to actually fall down...
Yamada-Maybe falling down like that, but there's all sorts of different ways to fall. There are people who get desperate as well.

Everyone-(Laughs)

Yamada-Yeah, or people who get completely beaten and fall down. People fall down in all sorts of ways.
Okamine-What do you mean, " People" ?

Everyone-(Laughs)

-However, when I hear the song I feel like it's saying that the one thing you absolutely cannot forget is to get back up.

Yamada-I feel like we've been able to overcome our problems because we've had this place to express ourselves. I feel better knowing that we have a place to make our problems into art. We made this album to support the people who don't have that outlet, since I think there are some people like that in the world. At least that's what we say. (Laughs)

Everyone-(Laughs)

Suginami-Yeah, I think so.

-Is there a way you decide the order of the songs on your albums? For example, did you think much about where to place the ballads like "Kizuna Song"?

Matsuda―Definitely. We thought up a bunch of different orders for the songs, but with a song like "Kizuna Song," we had wanted to make a song that people would like without really having to dive to heavily into it. It's the kind of song that fits naturally on our albums, but we wanted to place it somewhere dramatic so that it stuck out. Of course, it would have been fine if we put it in the front half of the album and people heard it without really being touched by it, but we thought that with the song's grand image and climactic feel it would be better to put it towards the middle of the album. But ultimately we wanted people to hear the album and feel like we'd gone in a new, different direction; we wanted people to notice that we'd done something we hadn't ever done before on this album.

-The album starts with "Tobira" ("Door") and ends with "Kiseki" ("Miracle") right? I thought you were trying to say, "If you open the door you'll eventually find a miracle" with the placement of these songs.

Matsuda-Well, I guess so...it's probably more correct to interpret it as, "if you open the door there's all sorts of types of people"...well, not "correct," but I'd say that's the image we focused on. We wanted to say "there's all sorts of doors out there, but the last of them will be a ‘miracle,' it'll be white and look like this."

-It's white?

Matsuda-Yes it is. The song itself has a white image to it...the door has got to be white.

-If I dare say so, the title track "Headphone Children" sounds different from anything you've tried before, more like a medium-tempo ska song. What were you intending to do with it?

Suginami-To us, "Headphone Children" sounds the closest to our everyday level of warmth. And because of this, we thought we should put it towards the middle of the album.
Matsuda-We were enthusiastic about trying new types of songs on this album, so to set them off we put those tracks at the end of the album.

-Do you guys have a particular tempo you like to sing, Mr. Yamada?

Yamada-Yes. We'll keep the rhythm fast, have the score move along at a good clip, but despite the score moving along in the background we'll have the vocals moving along at a percentage of the speed so that the song is easy to sing. I don't care whether the song is fast or slow, but I don't like having the back supporting songs that are moving too slow. Songs need balance.

-What took the longest when you were making the album?

Suginami-The song "Headphone Children" was entirely new for us. We did the arrangement really basically in accord with the theme, but we were constantly testing the limits on the amount of sound we could fit in the song. We tried to take advantage of a bunch of different sounds for the final product.

-Did you listen to anyone else's music while you were recording?

Suginami-I tried to listen to music that I don't normally listen to whenever I was at a listening corner at a record store. I wouldn't call it was out of enthusiasm though; it was more like I was trying to analyze what was popular. It wasn't particularly useful though.

-(Laughs) Oh! I've also had the pleasure of seeing you play live; Mr. Yamada you move around a lot don't you? I thought it was simply amazing that you never fall down and always make it back to your spot on stage. (Laughs)

Yamada-It might be because I have the monitor there. I'm trying to imagine myself, now that you've mentioned it, but I imagine I look pretty un-cool. (Laughs)

-No, no, I thought you were amazing. The way you spin violently around and then go right back to your spot on stage, don't you get dizzy?

Yamada-I try not to lose my balance. (Laughs) I think I'm always aware of where the monitor is and so can naturally make it back to my spot. (Laughs)

-As a viewer I have to say that I'm impressed by the way you move around. Is there something you do everyday to help you train?

Suginami-I don't think he's as cool as you think.
Yamada-I don't go through any physical therapy or anything. (Laughs)
Okamine-Do you watch yourself in the mirror? (Laughs)

Everyone-(Laughs)

-Also (Laughs) you still manage to keep your voice powerful while moving around violently on stage. Does your voice ever wear out?

Yamada-Yes it does, there's quite a few days where my voice dries out. That's because I sing until it goes out. It didn't used to happen, but now it dries out and I can't finish the song. So now I try to control how much I sing.

-Do you do anything in particular to take care of your voice?

Yamada-I do when we're on tour. But when there's nothing else happening I do whatever I want; smoke and drink as much as I want. (Laughs)

-(Laughs) I see. Are there any songs that you find hard to perform live?

Yamada-I'd say "Cobalt Blue," right? For the both of us. Matsuda-"Cobalt Blue" and "Joker," right?

-A ha ha (Laughs)

Matsuda-"Joker" is impossible.

-Do you plan to dominate any of the summer festivals this year?

Suginami-I'm...not sure. (Laughs)
Matusuda-It's really up to the promoters, regardless of whether we want to play or not. (Laughs) But if we can . . .
Everyone-We really want to!!!

-Which of your previous festival performances sticks out the most in your mind?

Matsuda-When we played the Fuji Rock Festival back when we were still indie.

-A ha ha (Laughs)

Matsuda-They said there was no one in the audience, but...(Laughs) it wasn't zero. There were probably six people out there. I remember the most the time we played in front of six people at Fuji rock. (Laughs)
Yamada-Of those, four of them were our friends. (Laughs)
Matsuda-I think the other two showed up early for PEALOUT. (Laughs)

-A ha ha ha ha (Laughs)

Matsuda-There's a different flavor to every festival. I can't say anything in particuler, but, I think there's good to be found in every sort of situation.

(Interview: M. Isoyama, Translated by Daniel)